- 01 December 2017 (3 messages)
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👍🏾 -
- 02 December 2017 (1 messages)
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- 03 December 2017 (1 messages)
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Join the @wordpressdevs community - 04 December 2017 (5 messages)
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Can everyone install FF Nightly in Mobile as well as desktop and set language to malayalam? -
And send me feedbacks?
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We will include the feedbacks till Jan 2.
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(Also we need to increase the usage for Malayalam version. So even if you don't want to raise issues, please install FF, set language as malayalam and enable telemetry.)
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Take a look at "Firefox Nightly for Developers"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fennec_aurora - 05 December 2017 (13 messages)
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Ubuntu 17.10 ൽ മലയാളം ഫൊണറ്റിക് കീബോഡ് വഴി ടൈപ് ചെയ്യാനുള്ള ഗൗഡ് എവിടേലും ഉണ്ടോ? -
Venel inn undakkam
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തരാമോ. ചെയ്യാൻ നോക്കീട്ട് പറ്റുന്നില്ല
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Oh phonatic aarnno.. ath ibus or fcitix install chytha mathi
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ഐ ബസ്സിൽ മൊഴിയോ സ്വനലേഖയോ കാണുന്നില്ലല്ലോ
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Input Methods l
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search and install
m17n-db, m17n-contrib, ibus-m17n -
Kitty
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Thanks
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How to install and configure swanalekha in Ubuntu 14.04How to install and configure swanalekha input method for typing in Malayalam in Ubuntu 14.04 Package to install ibus-m17n Swanalekha input method documentation http://wiki.smc.org.in/Swanalekha
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ഇതൊഴിവാക്കാൻ വല്ല വഴീമുണ്ടോ? ബാക്ക് സ്പേസ് അടിച്ചാലേ ചില്ലക്ഷരങ്ങൾ കൃത്യമായി വരുന്നുള്ളൂ. മൊഴിയിൽ.
- 06 December 2017 (9 messages)
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വയനാട്ടിലെവിടെയാ? -
Praveen, an emoji is planned to fix your name. Instead Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen, you can use that :) See https://www.unicode.org/emoji/future/emoji-candidates.html#1f3f4_200d_2620
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ZWJ ഉപയോഗിക്കണമെന്നു മാത്രം :)
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ഇമോജികളും ചില്ലക്ഷരങ്ങളും തമ്മിലെന്തു്?
ഈയിടെ XKCD യിൽ വന്ന ഒരു തമാശയാണു് മുകളിൽ കൊടുത്തിരിക്കുന്നതു്. ഇമോജികളെ പരിചയമുള്ളവർക്കു കാര്യം പിടികിട്ടിക്കാണും. എന്തെങ്കിലും ആശയം പ്രകടിപ്പിക്കാനുള്ള ചെറുചിത്രങ്ങളെയും സ്മൈലികളെയുമാണു് ഇമോജികൾ …
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Niravilpuzha -
Ok.
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Does anyone use Android in Malayalam?
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We need to test something.
- 07 December 2017 (1 messages)
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@joice കിട്ടി. ഇനി വേണ്ട.
- 08 December 2017 (6 messages)
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Jithin KayCee
ഈ വർഷത്തെ ഫെസ്റ്റിവലിന്റെ പുസ്തകം എഡിറ്റു ചെയ്തത് ഞങ്ങളാണ്. ചങ്കുകൾ സംഗീത ചേച്ചി Sangeetha Chenampulli, ഹരിയേട്ടൻ Hari Narayanan, മേഘ Megha Radhakrishnan എന്നിവരുടെ ഉറക്കമില്ലാ രാത്രികളുടെ...
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അങ്ങനെ ഇത്തവണത്തെ iffk മഞ്ചരിയില്‍ വന്നിരിക്കുന്നു.
സാങ്കേതികസഹായം ചോയ്ച്ചപ്പോ നൈസായിട്ട് മഞ്ചരി ആക്കിക്കൊട്ത്ത്... 😌 -
ഇത് വരെ ഉപയോഗപ്രദമായ ഒന്നും ഇല്ല
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Cdac had one - 10 December 2017 (17 messages)
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"രാവിലെ എട്ടരയ്ക്ക് അലാറം വെയ്ക്കൂ"... ഇങ്ങനെ നമ്മുടെ ഫോണിനോടു മലയാളത്തിൽ പറഞ്ഞാൽ അനുസരിക്കുന്ന ഒരു കാലമാണ് വരാൻ പോകുന്നതു്. "ഏതുവർഷമാണ് ഗാന്ധിജി ജനിച്ചതു്" എന്നു ചോദിച്ചാൽ മലയാളത്തിൽ തന്നെ "ആയിരത്തിയെണ്ണൂറ്ററുപത്തൊമ്പതിൽ" എന്നു ശബ്ദമായി പറഞ്ഞുതരുന്ന കാലം.
നമ്മളവിടെ എത്തിയിട്ടില്ല. അതിനു മലയാളത്തിനു് കുറച്ചുകൂടി മുന്നോട്ടുപോവാനുണ്ട്. അതിലൊന്ന് ഈ "എട്ടര" എന്ന വാക്കിൽ നിന്നും 8.30 എന്ന സമയസംബന്ധിയായ അക്കങ്ങൾ മനസ്സിലാക്കിയെടുക്കലാണ്. അതുപോലെ തിരിച്ച് 1869 നെ ആയിരത്തിയെണ്ണൂറ്ററുപത്തൊമ്പതു് എന്ന വാക്കുരൂപത്തിലാക്കലും. മലയാളത്തിൽ അക്കങ്ങളെ വാക്കുരൂപത്തിലും വാക്കിലുള്ളതിനെ അക്കത്തിലാക്കാനും കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനെ എങ്ങനെ പഠിപ്പിച്ചെടുക്കാം എന്നു ചിന്തിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ടോ? അത്ര എളുപ്പമല്ല സംഗതി. ഇംഗ്ലീഷിനൊക്കെ Nineteen ninety nine എന്നു പറഞ്ഞാൽ മതി, നമുക്കതു് ആയിരത്തിത്തൊള്ളായിരത്തിത്തൊണ്ണൂറ്റൊമ്പത് ആണ്.
ഈ പ്രശ്നത്തിന്റെ പരിഹാരമുണ്ടാക്കാനുള്ള ശ്രമം ഏകദേശം വിജയിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ട്. ഞാൻ കുറച്ചുദിവസം മുമ്പ് ഇവിടെ പറഞ്ഞ മലയാളം മോർഫോളജി അനലൈസറിന്റെ സഹായത്തോടെ ഒരു ലക്ഷം കോടി വരെയുള്ള എല്ലാ അക്കങ്ങളെയും വാക്കുകളാക്കാനും തിരിച്ച് വാക്കുകളെ അക്കങ്ങളാക്കാനും ഇപ്പോൾ സാധിക്കും. സന്ധി നിയമങ്ങളൊക്കെ കൃത്യമായി പാലിച്ചുതന്നെ. എട്ടരയ്ക്ക് എന്നു പറഞ്ഞാൽ 8.5 എന്നാണെന്നും ഉദ്ദേശിക/Dative വിഭക്തിയാണെന്നടക്കം മനസ്സിലാക്കാൻ ഈ സിസ്റ്റത്തിനു കഴിയും.
മലയാളം അക്കങ്ങളുടെ രൂപീകരണത്തിലെ സ്വഭാവമടക്കം ഈ സൂത്രത്തെ പരിചയപ്പെടുത്തുന്ന ലേഖനം എന്റെ ബ്ളോഗിൽ http://thottingal.in/blog/2017/12/10/number-spellout-and-generation-in-malayalam-using-morphology-analyser/ -
കണ്ണ് വെക്കും -
Fedora-27, KDE-ല് മലയാളം ടൈപ്പ് ചെയ്യാന്‍ ചില പ്രശ്നങ്ങള്‍ കാണുന്നു. ഞാന്‍ ഉപയോഗിക്കുന്നത് ibus+സ്വനലേഖ.
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KWrite-ല് ചില്ലക്ഷരങ്ങള്‍ കിട്ടുന്നില്ല. "പകല്" എന്ന് ടൈപ്പ് ചെയ്താല്‍ "പകല്" എന്നേ വരുന്നുള്ളൂ. ഫയര്‍ഫോക്സിലും ലിബ്രെഓഫീസിലും കുഴപ്പമില്ല
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KWrite-ല് മീര സെലക്റ്റ് ചെയ്തിട്ടും മാറ്റമൊന്നുമുണ്ടായില്ല.
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ഫോണ്ടിന്റെയല്ല എന്നൊരു തോന്നല്‍. Qt5 ആയി ബന്ധപ്പെട്ട എന്തോ പ്രശ്നമായിരിക്കുമോ?
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Just tested.. It works fine in Dolphin address bar and System Settings search box.
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The text editor component?
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What are the settings for qt?
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I'm going offline
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Will text later
- 11 December 2017 (8 messages)
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Since it works in Dolphin address bar and other Qt5 based applications like Konversation, I doubt if it's Qt related.
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I cannot type "പകല്" in KWrite (or Kate, both uses KatePart text component), but I can paste the same text from some other place and KWrite renders it just fine.
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Konsole can neither accept 'ല്' while typing nor can it render it when cat'ing a file containing that text. Both cases it shows as 'ല്'
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My Android renders it correctly while my Ubuntu laptop doesn't have contracted characters for the same message. -
The same font ?
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- 12 December 2017 (24 messages)
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ഇന്റർനെറ്റിൽ പലയിടത്തായി കിടക്കുന്ന PDF പുസ്തകങ്ങൾ ക്രോഡീകരിച്ച് ചേർക്കുകയാണ് അവർ ചെയ്തിട്ടുള്ളത് -
*എനിക്ക് തോന്നുന്നത്
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Maybe it's a 50 MB file at max
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Contact meenankil tribal HS
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we need something like this in malayalam
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sorry for malayalam language
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Its all spamming :-/
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The atomic chillu version (പകൽ) is rendered OK by Konsole.
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Anyway, I don't have much problem with Konsole not displaying text properly. But KWrite is a loss.
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And I have another problem with typing on Plasma widgets - such as desktop notes.. or even in KRunner.
Text entry with ibus does not seem to work. It shows as switched to Swanalekha, but the text that appears is only English and not Malayalam. -
This particular problem was there in Fedora 26 also. Perhaps I am missing a package. But I can't figure out what it is.
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QT_IM_MODULE=ibus is set in your .xprofile ?
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Hopes
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:-?
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it is not there ?
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Typo.. *Nopes
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I'll try it and let you know the results
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oky
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This is a helpful document
- 13 December 2017 (8 messages)
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QT_IM_MODULE setting also does not help
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That is strange. The Arch wiki article deals is very detailed.
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Did you go through that ?/
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I'm not using a Linux machine so I am not sure if the settings are picked up from xprofile in your machine. I'm running i3
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Yes. Then environment variable is set correctly. I can echo it from a terminal.
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This I haven't tried.
- 14 December 2017 (2 messages)
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amazing thing
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Checkout their r/Bitcoin thread for some more info - 15 December 2017 (36 messages)
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This is already installed
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I don't have such a tool. Fedora repos also do not list anything similar.
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:-? This is extremely strange and frustrating
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Both issues are still unresolved: Kwrite not accepting chillu and Plasma widgets not working with ibus
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He's pretty thorough balu
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There's a package that provides qtconfig-qt4, but not for Qt5
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And web search indicates that it is not available for Qt5
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Fcitx works better with kde than ibus -
Is that the recommend im tool these days?
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I came across it during some searches
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Ibus is part of gnome
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Does Swanalekha work with fcitx?
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Yes.
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Oh.. Then I'll definitely give it a try today.
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Thanks
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I use fcitx
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have been for a year now
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install it and install m17n packages and fcitx-m17n packages
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I don't know the name of the packages on *Linux operating systems. It works really well
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Switched to fcitx and now I'm able to type on Plasma widgets.
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Now the only remaining problem is typing chillu in KWrite/Kate
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:-? that seems like a qt problem
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fcitx relies on same environment variables
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I'm able to type "പകൽ" pretty much everywhere in KDE applications, except Kwrite & Konsole.
It works ok in Dolphin address bar, KRunner etc and if I copy the text and paste it in KWrite, it is displayed correctly. -
Just that I'm not able to type directly in KWrite's text area
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With Konsole, even the paste doesn't work. It shows only as 'ല്'
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I want to learn the reason. I noticed my Android renders it fine while Ubuntu doesn't.
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I'm not quite bothered about Konsole. KWrite is a loss
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Using setxkbmap upto eerekkure one year
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Surely a bug in KatePart or KTexteditor (or something of that sort, forgot the actual component name) on which Kate & KWrite depends -
Filing an upstream bug would be better
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Katepart
- 16 December 2017 (17 messages)
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Jerin and Harish, you guys may also want to check https://gitlab.com/space-kerala/lekha-OCR/tree/lekha_under_panni - This is a project by Space KeralaFiles · lekha_under_panni · space-kerala / lekha-OCR
Malayalam Optical Character Recognizer Developed by space-kerala.org with ICFOSS
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I think a better method is probably writing code to render all chars you want and then use different fonts to do it
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:-?
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@sthottingal ?
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googlei18n/fontreport
fontreport - Tool to create PDF files containing glyph images and information about a font.
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this can do that report with all glyphs
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Sample for Manjari
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പിന്നല്ല! ചുമ്മാ ചോയിക്ക്
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I read your conversation with jerin
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Good effort
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Let us know and use us as reference
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Well you know there is a community here
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💪
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👍 -
എത്രയും വേഗം പൂർത്തിയാവടെ
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I would recommend contacting the developers of that project and each team aware of thers work, potential collaboration.
- 17 December 2017 (29 messages)
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ഇതിന് വല്ല സൊലൂഷനും?
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@sthottingal ?
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ഞാൻ ഡെബിയൻ ആണ് യൂസ് ചെയ്യുന്നത്. എനിക്ക് ടെലഗ്രാം ൽ മാത്രം മലയാളം ടൈപ്പ് ചെയ്യാൻ പറ്റുന്നുണ്ട്
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ബാക്കി എല്ലാം അപ്പ്ലിക്കേഷനിൽ ഒന്നും ടൈപ്പ് ആകുന്നില്ല
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Smc ഫോണ്ട് ഒക്കെ ഇൻസ്റ്റാൾ ചെയ്തിട്ടുണ്ട്
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മൊഴി സ്കീമിന്റെ ഫീച്ചറാണത്. ബഗ്ഗല്ല. വിശദീകരിക്കാം...
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മൊഴിയിൽ n എന്നു ടൈപ്പു ചെയ്താൽ ചില്ലാണു വരിക. കൂടാതെ സ്പേസും വരും. വാക്ക് അവസാനിച്ചു എന്ന് മൊഴി ഗസ്സ് ചെയ്യുകയാണ്. അനുസ്വാരവും അതുപോലെത്തന്നെ. ബാക്ക് സ്പേസ് അടിക്കേണ്ട കാര്യമില്ല ടൈപ്പു ചെയ്തു തുടരാവുന്നതാണ്. അനുസ്വാരത്തിന്റെ കൂടെയുള്ള കുത്തുവട്ടം താനേ പൊയ്ക്കോളും. മൊഴിയിലെ ഈ ഫീച്ചറുകാരണം വാക്കിനു നടുവിൽ ചില്ലു ടൈപ്പു ചെയ്യാൻ ബുദ്ധിമുട്ടാറുണ്ട്. അതിനു മൊഴി സ്കീം പറയുന്നതു് n_ , m_ ഒക്കെ ഉപയോഗിക്കാനാണ്.
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ഈ സ്വഭാവവും ta -> റ്റ ആവുന്ന സ്കീമും എനിക്കിഷ്ടമല്ലാത്തതുകൊണ്ട്, ഞാനെഴുതിയ സ്വനലേഖ സ്കീമിൽ ഇതുരണ്ടുമില്ല.
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മൊഴിയുടെ ഈ സ്വഭാവം മനസ്സിലാക്കിയാൽ തീരാവുന്ന പ്രശ്നമേയുള്ളു. പൊതുവിൽ ഇൻപുട്ട് ടൂളുകൾ ഓവർസ്മാർട്ട് ആവരുതു് എന്ന് ഞാൻ സ്ഥിരമായി പറയുന്ന ഒരു തിയറിയാണ്. :)
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ഐബസാണോ fcitx ആണോ?
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Indic keyboard has different layouts including mozhi and swanalekha, use the one appropriate to you
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The autocomplete and correction is very bad -
ഇതാണ് മൊഴി ടൈപ്പുകളുടെ പ്രശ്നം. ഇൻസ്കിപ്റ്റ് രസകരം :D
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മൊബൈലിൽ ഇൻസ്ക്രിപ്റ്റ് ഫ്ലുവൻ സി കിട്ടുന്നില്ല. മംഗ്ലീഷ് ആണേൽ വഴങ്ങുന്നുമില്ല
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OK will try it.
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But basic word completion from my local personal dictionary is also not good.
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Currently I turned this autocorrection off
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This is my area of research. As the paper you linked says "However, at the level of error detection, this number critically
affects, until we have morphological analyzers which can work
on erroneous text." -
I am working on morphology analyser.
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But till that, for OCR, I guess we need to come up with a dictionary of visual variants and a dictionary for ngram or prefix sequence match
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Towards a Malayalam morphology analyser
Malayalam is a highly inflectional and agglutinative language. This has posed a challenge for all kind of language processing. Algorithmic interpretation of Malayalam’s words and their formation rules …
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fair concern. so far it did not.
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ibus anu
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ഇതുപൊലെ ചെയ്തപ്പൊള്‍ ശരിയായി 😘
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കിദുവെ
- 18 December 2017 (10 messages)
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typewriter.pdf
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mal-type.pdf
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jerin: Harish: Any luck? What's the progress? -
കേരളീയം ഫോണ്ട് പുറത്തിറക്കിയിട്ട് ഇന്നേയ്ക്ക് മൂന്നു വർഷമാകുന്നു. ഹുസൈൻ കെ. എച് ആണ് കേരളീയം രൂപകല്പന ചെയ്തത്. ഓപ്പൺടൈപ്പ് എൻജിനിയറിങ്ങ് ചെയ്തത് രജീഷ് കെ. നമ്പ്യാരും കാവ്യ മനോഹറും ആയിരുന്നു. തലക്കെട്ടുകൾക്ക് വേണ്ടി രൂപകല്പന ചെയ്ത ഈ ഫോണ്ട് പെട്ടെന്നുതന്നെ പ്രചാരത്തിലായി.
അതിനുശേഷം ഈ ഫോണ്ട് പല തവണ പുതുക്കിയിട്ടൂണ്ടായിരുന്നു. ശ്രദ്ധയിൽപ്പെട്ട പിഴവുകൾ പരിഹരിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ട്. ഇംഗ്ലീഷിലെ l, j എന്നീ അക്ഷരങ്ങൾ താരതമ്യേന മെലിഞ്ഞതായിരുന്നു. അത് റിലീസിനു ശേഷം അധികം വൈകാതെത്തന്നെ ശരിയാക്കിയിരുന്നു. ഇതുവരെ ചെയ്തിട്ടില്ലെങ്കിൽ നിങ്ങളുടെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിലെ ഫോണ്ട് പുതുക്കുന്നതു് നന്നായിരിക്കും. Download: https://smc.org.in/fonts/#keraleeyam -
Harish:
> HHarish: Any luck? What's the progress?
Actually, I didn't move forward from last state.
What happened last time is, I checked 2-3 crnn implementations and most of them are some how depending on cuda.
Finally, I found caffe-crnn which do not depends ( only ) on cuda.
( I do not have any Nvidia GPU and I do not like to spend money for an Nvidia GPU. ) -
jerin: Ah, screw GPU. MNIST like implementations don't need GPU
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jerin: If CRNN requires one, I can train and run it, just prototype using a CPU
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Harish: Yup. will try that.
It is bit depressing fact that, Nvidia has complete dominance in the area of ML.
Most of the major projects depens on Nvidia .
So sad situation - 19 December 2017 (2 messages)
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Kerala University National seminar on Malayalam - Jan 2018. Call for papers
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Thank You :)
- 20 December 2017 (9 messages)
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Job: there is a Delhi based job for people with passion about free software and system admin skills. It is for SFLC.
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Entry level people are also considered according to them. If interested contact me, I can connect with them.
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interested. but not free now :/(
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thanu (IRC): hello
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- 21 December 2017 (8 messages)
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മലയാളം വിക്കിപീഡിയ 15-ആം വാർഷികാഘോഷം:- നാളെ കോഴിക്കോട്‌ പഠന ശിബിരം നടക്കുന്നു -
@biovisions_bot
2017-18 സാമ്പത്തിക വര്‍ഷത്തെ ഇന്‍കം ടാക്സ് പൂര്‍ണ്ണമായും അടച്ചു തീര്‍ക്കാന്‍ ഇനി മൂന്നു മാസങ്ങളേയുള്ളൂ. അടയ്ക്കാന്‍ ബാക്കിയുള്ള തുക അടുത്ത മാസങ്ങളില്‍ തുല്യ തവണകളാക്കി അടയ്ക്കുന്നത് വഴി അവസാന മാസത്തെ പ്രയാസങ്ങള്‍ ഒഴിവാക്കാം. ആദായ നികുതി പരമാവധി കുറയ്ക്കുന്നതിനായി നിക്ഷേപങ്ങള്‍ നടത്തുന്നതിനും ഇത് സഹായിക്കും
ഈ വര്‍ഷത്തെ ആദായ നികുതി നിരക്കും നികുതി ഇളവിനായുള്ള വിവിധ വകുപ്പുകളും അറിയാന്‍ ഈ PDF ഫയല്‍ ഡൌണ്‍ലോഡ് ചെയ്യാം.
Download PDF File of Notes on INCOME TAX 2017-18 (http://bit.ly/2mBeD0g)
ഇന്‍കം ടാക്സ്, ടാക്സ് റിലീഫ് എന്നിവ കണക്കാക്കുന്നതിനും Anticipatory Statement, Final Statement, Form 10E മുതലായവ തയ്യാറാക്കുന്നതിന് സഹായകരമായ സോഫ്റ്റ്‌വെയര്‍ ഇവിടെ നിന്നും ഡൌണ്‍ലോഡ് ചെയ്യാം.
Download EASY TAX 2018 (http://bit.ly/2x79eDN)
ചില പ്രധാന ഉത്തരവുകള്‍ ഇവിടെ നിന്നും ഡൌണ്‍ലോഡ് ചെയ്യാം.
Circular from Finance Department (http://finance.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=6861&Itemid=57): തവണകളായി ശമ്പളത്തില്‍ നിന്നും നികുതി കുറയ്ക്കണമെന്ന നിര്‍ദേശം. -
ഇതൊന്ന് നോക്കൂ
ചിലപ്പോൾ ഉപകാരപ്പെട്ടേക്കാം
👆👆 -
K
Also go to here if useful
Education Kerala:
Income Tax Software Tools
http://www.hsslive.in/2017/12/income-tax-software-tools.htmlIncome Tax Software ToolsIncome Tax Software Tools for employees
- 22 December 2017 (12 messages)
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Malayalam computing
How to use Malayalam Unicode fonts in the present Kerala Panchayath Department
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> diadara_ (IRC) has joined the room
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Complexities of Malayalam computing explained
In the 1990s, with the advent of computers, the State Institute of Languages decided to simplify Malayalam even more.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen:
> Somebody please kick this spambot
Anivar Aravind (Telegram) Ranjith siji it has affected many channels. If we are a bridged room, we can at least clean it up. -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Balasankar C (Telegram): I'm talking about message content spam, not join/leave messages.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Balasankar C (Telegram): I suggest we send a patch first before running our own server
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Riot is a free software alternative for telegram and watsapp. There is a parallel riot linked group to this telegram group. Because of bridging, you can chat in telegram group from riot. Those who are free software enthusiasts and promote free culture, try riot.
"Here convenience is the blue pill and freedom is the red one, choice is yours." -
നിങ്ങളുടെയറിവിൽ 2 years experience ഉള്ള ആൻഡ്രോയ്ഡ് ഡെവലപ്പർമാർ ആരെങ്കിലും ജോലി മാറാൻ ഉദ്ദേശിക്കുന്നവർ / ജോലി അന്വേഷിക്കുന്നവർ ഉണ്ടെങ്കിൽ എന്നെ കോണ്ടാക്റ്റ് ചെയ്യാൻ പറയാമോ? hrishi@entri.me
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- 23 December 2017 (4 messages)
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen sent an image
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Nice!
- 24 December 2017 (192 messages)
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen sent an image
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jerin: To be frank - apple's a lot easier. Everything works nicely.
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jerin: Integrates and syncs nicely.
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Also unnecessarily expensive
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Microsoft syncs just as well and cheaper
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That's not the point though
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(My Linux/BSD machines also syncs easily)
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Ivanmark enth engot syncan -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Integrates and syncs nicejerin: because they use proprietary protocols and don't allow others to sync nicely by standardizing their interfaces
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: To be frank - apple's a lot easier. Everything works nicejerin: but you have absolutely no control. That is not a nice deal.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Reply to jerin: jerin: To be frank - apple's a lot easier. Everything works nicely. Ivanmark enth engot syncI think he is talking about iphone and itunes here
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jerin: Oh no, more than that.
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jerin:
> Integrates and syncs nicely.
> jerin: because they use proprietary protocols and don't allow others to sync nicely by standardizing their interfaces
Why should they, in the first place? To the average non-geek user - a MacBook or an iPhone is an incredibly overpriced machine. I admit - but in the ecosystem things are smooth and works. -
jerin:
> To be frank - apple's a lot easier. Everything works nicely.
> jerin: but you have absolutely no control. That is not a nice deal.
To the power user. Some people don't even require the degree of control you'd advice is necessary. -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: no, not just for power users
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: and the govt have the funds to customize if it wants
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Even google drive syncs 😒
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it can pay for developers
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it is about the ability to customize
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: do you want our govt to beg for customization?
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jerin: There is no need to customize beyond a certain degree now.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: who decides that/
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jerin: Dropbox syncs better than Google.
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Also owncloud syncs 😍
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jerin: But that's not the point
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: the question is, who decides?
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Pinna entha point
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: being in control of our software is incredibly important
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jerin: GNU/Linux is free only if you have free time.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: I'm glad the govt understands that
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: we are not talking about money here
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: the question is about control
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jerin: What would the said control get you?
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jerin: What's the most brilliant thing ever done with the controlzm
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jerin: ?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: the ability to get the software do what I want
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: so many things
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jerin: Be more specific?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: from the custom distro we run in every schoo;
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: can you do that with apple?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: can you make a custom iso of apple with software we want?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: we translate apps to Malayalam
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: we localize apps so it becomes relevant to our kids here
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it does not show euro or dollar notes, but rupee
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it does not show pics of birds or trees not found here
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: we can list numerous examples where we customized
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: every person need not be an expert
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: but the customizations do get distributed to no techies as well
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jerin: uh, huh, so?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: so we care about the ability to customize, even if we personally can't do it
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: that is what we call control
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: we are willing to put moeny and effort to get the software to do what we want
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jerin: Yes, but why would changing a rupee sign or translating to languages be a convincing enough argument to deploy it?
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jerin:
> we are willing to put moeny and effort to get the software to do what we want
You can build apps on the said platform. Mac OS isn't that bad - decent command line utilities work there as well. You just can't tamper with the core, far as I understand. You can still create subsystems which are available on GNU/Linux. -
@balasankarc: jerin: That happened in GCompris, a tool that is used to teach children. They can relate with Rupee and Mango tree better than Euro and a fir tree. Don't you think that matters for the impact such a software have on children?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: no, we are not interested in merely developing apps, why would we? We want the complete freedom. Why should we not modify the core if we need?
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jerin:
> no, we are not interested in merely developing apps, why would we? We want the complete freedom. Why should we not modify the core if we need? -
jerin:
> jerin: That happened in GCompris, a tool that is used to teach children. They can relate with Rupee and Mango tree better than Euro and a fir tree. Don't you think that matters for the impact such a software have on children?
While the larger software is simply unknown to these students - only thing they want to learn is mango, rupee instead of euro and fir? -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: when you have the whole system available for you to see, modify and innovate? why limit ourselves?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: I want our kids to be able to innovate on the same level
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jerin: No, I'm not asking from the software devel perspective. I'm asking from the user perspective.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: devel freedom spreads to users
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jerin:
> I want our kids to be able to innovate on the same level
Examples of these - please. Which happened thanks to custom distributed software? -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: a 10th standard student wrote code in a single day to connect matrix and diaspora
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jerin: Which can be done on the windows ecosystem, macbook or linux.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: https://git.fosscommunity.in/necessary129/synapse-diaspora-authShamil K / synapse-diaspora-auth
Diaspora authentication for Matrix Synapse.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: Free Software on Windows?
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@balasankarc: jerin: What if either Matrix or Diaspora wasn't Free Software? Would he have been able to do it so easily? :)
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jerin: You're just telling me why there should be free and open source software
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jerin: Not why Apple shouldn't be used.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: because you already said it
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: apple is not free and open source
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jerin: Oh, no. I did not say it.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: You're just telling me why there should be free and open source softw^
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jerin: The original discussion was why the finance ministry couldn't use apple
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: are you saying Operating System is not software?
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jerin: I find apple convenient enough for the users in that sector.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it is some holy thing that should not be opened?
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jerin: Are apple products so mediocre and free software superior so they shouldn't be used?
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Pirate Bady:
> The original discussion was why the finance ministry couldn't use apple
why finance ministey couldn't use rolls royce? -
jerin: Sure, why not - if they have the money?
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Pirate Bady: ya, "people's" money
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Are apple products so mediocre and free software superior so they shouldn't be usare you pretending to not see the point here?
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jerin: Most MacBooks are solid - has very less issues. Pretty overpriced - but the 2012 Pro was a beast.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: with Free software, we can make things convenient
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jerin: No, let's say I'm a taxpayer, I'd prefer the people in the office use a system which is convenient and good enough - and I don't see why MacBook shouldn't be a choice.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Thinkpads are solid too, but that is not the point
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jerin:
> Thinkpads are solid too, but that is not the point
Runs on GNU/Linux. Not the best user experience. -
jerin: It's your opinion in the end that control is a necessity.
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jerin: I'm happy with a box that works and gives me a decent unix-like subsystem these days.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: that is your opinion
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jerin: Yes.
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jerin: Opinions are okay, but no need to assert.
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jerin: It on others - say the finance department.
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@balasankarc: When it comes to taxpayer's money, it isn't as simple.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it is more than my opinion too
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it is state IT policy, which is binding
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: on every govt department
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jerin: Let go of policy to back up your argument.
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jerin: My question is, why not apple products at all?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: but you said no need to assert
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jerin: Libreoffice outright sucks, compared to the others.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: I'd have stuck to arguments if IT policy was in place
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: but with IT policy vaildating my opinion, I can definitely assert
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hacksk: Because freedom comes on top of everything
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: IT policy was not in place -- correction
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jerin: Wow, this is one huge echo chamber. What benefit would be there with the ability to tweak some finance secretary's work laptop?
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jerin: I'd be compromising a good office suite.
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jerin: Nice integration of files, documents and sync.
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jerin: In favour of the ability to customize.
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jerin:
> Because freedom comes on top of everything
Yes. Use cheap, crappy software just so there's freedom? -
@balasankarc:
> Yes. Use cheap, crappy software just so there's freedom?
Wow. -
@balasankarc: That's a slippery slop. :)
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Pirate Bady:
> My question is, why not apple products at all?
https://stallman.org/apple.html
i hope that answers your question -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Wow, this is one huge echo chambeYou can at least engage with us. Can we get even such a platform to debate with apple empoyees on software freedom?
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hacksk:
> Because freedom comes on top of everything
> Yes. Use cheap, crappy software just so there's freedom?
Are u using iPhone or android -
jerin: Because freedom comes on top of everything Yes. Use cheap, crappy software just so there's freedom? Are u using iPhone or andrAndroid.
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jerin: My question is, why not apple products at all? https://stallman.org/apple.html i hope that answers your questNot really - my question is not on the ethical side. Do we have the right statistics for these arguments?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: You are critizing the developers of a Free Software project on their channel? Can you even do that with proprietary companies?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Our argument is, ethics do matter
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jerin: You are critizing the developers of a Free Software project on their channel? Can you even do that with proprietary companNo, you're taking this personally. I don't have a problem with free software or anything.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Freedom is worth a sacrifice
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: You are ignoring the fact that an OPerating System is also software
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jerin: I have enough knowledge on major desktop ecosystems by now - linux, a bit advanced as well, and I'm stating if I am to give my friends or family a machine - it's most likely MacBook
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: why do you say an argument for Software Freedom don't apply to Operating System or an Office Suite?
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jerin: I have enough knowledge on major desktop ecosystems by now - linux, a bit advanced as well, and I'm stating if I am to give my friends or family a machine - it's most likely MacBAnd I don't see why people in the Finance department should be crippled by less user-friendly, less featured office suites and things of that sort.
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@balasankarc:
> I have enough knowledge on major desktop ecosystems by now - linux, a bit advanced as well, and I'm stating if I am to give my friends or family a machine - it's most likely MacBook
I won't. I tried Mac and felt it to be way difficult and gave a GNU/Linux distro to my parents. But that is relative - what is good for you may not be good for me. -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it only your opinion that libre office is not enough
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@balasankarc: jerin: I agree convenience is indeed a factor. But, I don't agree that supercedes the concept of freedom and the advantages it brings. And to say LO is beyond crap when compared to Apple's office suite is bit biased IMO. I can find you plenty of people who find LO to be satisfactory enough to get their work done efficiently.
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jerin: I have had so much horrible experience with LO.
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@balasankarc: Same for me, with Mac. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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jerin: You haven't tried enough perhaps
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jerin: My professors, even the ones who teach operating systems brings a Mac
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: The point is, when you want Freedom and Convenience, and you start with proprietary software, you can never have Freedom.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: but with Free Software, we are continuously making it more and more convenient
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jerin: No, not really
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jerin: That requires a lot of human effort
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@balasankarc: Even my parents, both of whom are professors and not that technically capable are happy with their Linux Mint machines and find it efficient. And yes, they did give Mac a try first. :) Usability is relative, I repeat.
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Pirate Bady: jerin: govt has already publicly committed to promote free & open source software, such a govt shouldn't use a proprietary platform that ships with proprietary operating software. apart from wasting people's money it's ironical as well. any further arguments?
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Akshay: Well I guess the point jerin is trying to make is that running free software OS is important maybe for school labs where the purpose of the laptop is to learn computing, but the purpose of a ministry's laptop is to make the work of the ministry as efficient as possible
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@balasankarc: jerin: This is where a custom distro example comes in appropriately. Because we were able to create a custom distro with all the necessary software, schools across Kerala were saved from the hardship of installing and configuring all those softwares in all those machines. Didn't that decrease human effort, in total?
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Akshay: And I guess jerin thinks Mac is much more efficient/intuitive
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jerin: No, not efficient.
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jerin: Convenient
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jerin: I don't have to think, be free and develop a lot
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jerin: I can assume some guarantees come with it that it works, if not - I can shout at Apple instead of having to fix it myself.
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Akshay: We should probably build a list of conveniences that Mac holds over GNU and try to check them off one by one
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@balasankarc: Just like you accuse LO to be crappy when it comes to usability, I can very easily say Mac is crappy, philosophically because it is non-free and hence unethical. Even from a security perspective, I can accuse it to be sub-standard.
Why is convenience a greater factor than ethics? -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: We should probably build a list of conveniences that Mac holds over GNU and try to check them off one by Akshay: good point
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: can you help us list out the specific cases where Mac/its office suite is better/convenient?
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jerin:
> Just like you accuse LO to be crappy when it comes to usability, I can very easily say Mac is crappy, philosophically because it is non-free and hence unethical. Even from a security perspective, I can accuse it to be sub-standard.
> Why is convenience a greater factor than ethics?
Productivity of ministry officials? -
@balasankarc:
> Productivity of ministry officials?
Based on the assumption that productivity sucks if FOSS is used? -
jerin:
> Productivity of ministry officials?
> Based on the assumption that productivity sucks if FOSS is used?
No, it's reduced. I didn't say it's unusable -
Akshay: I will tell a random tangential story. My hospital is run by an NGO with amazing principles. They would totally agree with the concept of free software. But when it came to getting computers for registration, lab, etc more than 8 years ago they bought Windows XP because back then the situation was stacked up against GNU. But there was another round of buying this year and they switched to zorin OS!
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jerin: What is zorin os?
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@balasankarc:
> No, it's reduced. I didn't say it's unusable
I disagree. -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Mac comes with Microsoft Office or another?
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jerin: The only real way to find out is do statistical analysis
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@balasankarc: Why do you think government chose FOSS over proprietary solutions?
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Pirate Bady:
> No, it's reduced. I didn't say it's unusable
jerin: let me ask your question back to you: "Do we have the right statistics for these arguments?" -
Akshay: ZorinOS is a derivative of Ubuntu I think.
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@balasankarc:
> Why do you think government chose FOSS over proprietary solutions?
And why aren't those advantages applicable in whatever the usecase you are describing? -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: https://pad.disroot.org/p/Mac_vs_GNU-Linux
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@balasankarc: The argument of "Usability is reduced if FOSS is used" is very, very relative. A custom tailored FOSS solution worked fine for many government departments.
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jerin: Like?
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@balasankarc: IT@School, KSEB, Khadi Board, PWD, Legislative assmebly etc etc.
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Pirate Bady: also are there any reliable statistics that shows convenience to price ratio is better for apple products?
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@balasankarc: ^ This.
Is the convenience worth the money? How much will it cost to develop such features to existing FOSS solutions (which holds a greater advantage, in the long run)? Will it be more or less than buying proprietary licenses for quite a number of machines?
Data! :) -
@balasankarc: Until there is statistical data to prove either side, FOSS has an advantage based on other factors like ethical, philosophical and security.
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@balasankarc: As a tax payer, I prefer my government using publically auditable and verifiable softwares to handle my data!
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@balasankarc: Especially when it comes to financial data.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Why are we spending money on ISRO if giving the satellites to NASA is more convenient?
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: it might cost a bit more
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: but it would be very convenient, right?
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hacksk: What if apple store imp gov data to their server
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hacksk: We can't say they dont
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: and also would apple be charging the same money if GNU/Linux or Libre Office were abscent in the game?
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jerin: Maybe not. So?
> and also would apple be charging the same money if GNU/Linux or Libre Office were abscent in the game? -
Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: those are all the factors not just convenience
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: there is more to Free Software than what meets the eye
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: one point I want to highlight from the above wiki "Reducing imports/conserving foreign exchange"
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> Da Shamil has joined the room
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: again from the wiki, but I mentioned earlier this point "It has been noted that there is a positive correlation between the growth of a FOSS developer base and the innovative software capacities of an economy."
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jerin: So - seems that the finance ministry can afford it, given they've already bought it.
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jerin: again from the wiki, but I mentioned earlier this point "It has been noted that there is a positive correlation between the growth of a FOSS developer base and the innovative software capacities of an economcorrelation doesn't imply causation.
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> Po Shamil has joined the room
- 25 December 2017 (453 messages)
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* sadiq[m] missed the discussion
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: jerin: that is weird logic. You imply people/govt does not spend beyond their means.
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Even before this correlation was noted, we knew how Free Software can help innovation.
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sadiq[m]: jerin: there are several indirect costs. Say, if the whole government uses M$ office, every user that have to submit some document should be using the same (else, the document might not work well). So either people will have to buy M$ office (or use a unauthorized version, which is legally and morally wrong). But if the government uses a gratis version (eg: Libreoffice which is also free), the cost goes considerably less. Just explaining the monetary benefits
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Licensing costs alone are a big saver - could be diverted to other funds
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Not to mention reliance on local community
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And hence self reliability
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jerin: jerin: there are several indirect costs. Say, if the whole government uses M$ office, every user that have to submit some document should be using the same (else, the document might not work well). So either people will have to buy M$ office (or use a unauthorized version, which is legally and morally wrong). But if the government uses a gratis version (eg: Libreoffice which is also free), the cost goes considerably less. Just explaining the monetary benefOh, come on - don't come back to monetary benefits. You're putting a lot of pain on the users just so the system is very customizable. They needn't be bothered with the nuances of free-open-source ultra customizable awesomeness.
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jerin: Even before this correlation was noted, we knew how Free Software can help innovatiLook, at best you can say statistically, they've been more activity and sharing in Free and Open Source Circles, which is conditioned on the fact that it's FOSS.
Not that it's universal. I condition it on finance-department non-technical background users, I can put closed source heavy user oriented and more featured systems way ahead. -
jerin: Licensing costs alone are a big saver - could be diverted to other fuSo there are people who do charity work to put the best software out there for users?
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jerin: Where does the money come from? Donations?
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Da Shamil: ugghh
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Da Shamil: sorry, unformatted message.
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jerin: Look at it this way, I'm a user trying to increase my productivity and abilities to do more with software - given I have enough money, would I choose:
Photoshop or GIMP? -
jerin: Microsoft Office or LibreOffice?
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jerin: Matlab or fucking Octave?
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jerin: Microsoft Server or Linux Server?
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jerin: Final Cut Pro or whatever the linux alternative is?
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Sure Linux server
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All super computers are runs on Linux
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Most of servers are using Linux
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Why is all super computers powered by Free Software/Linux? Its not about money.
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jerin: I understand, and I knew at least one would jump to say it's FOSS and FOSS magic
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Pirate 🏴☠️ Praveen: Is popularity the only measure of how good a software is?
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jerin: My point is - I want the best tool/software in the market which is the best to do the said job.
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Yes. Linux is best in server. Aren't you agree?
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@balasankarc: And you are clearly opinionated about what the best is. :)
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jerin: Why is all super computers powered by Free Software/Linux? Its not about monI'm not even commenting. Please, let's both agree it's not to put it out there for FOSS developers to experiment?
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Even Microsoft is using Linux servers
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@balasankarc: Which may be true for you, but not for a government that runs on people's money. There are many, many other factors that decide it.
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@balasankarc: Which have been commented above many times, like ethics, philosophy and security. I really don't want to repeat myself.
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jerin: Which may be true for you, but not for a government that runs on people's money. There are many, many other factors that decide Yes. The factor is not what's cheap and what's customizable to the core alone.
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@balasankarc: Unless you have statistical data to prove non-free software is the best and most efficient tool to do a job and we don't have FOSS is the one, FOSS wins on other factors.
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@balasankarc: s/don't have/don't have data to prove
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jerin: Unless you have statistical data to prove non-free software is the best and most efficient tool to do a job and we don't have FOSS is the one, FOSS wins on other factoWTF. Seriously? Is it a shame to the FOSS developer community to accept some is simply far more superior than the others?
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Gov can employ a developer to customise the software with less than they need to pay for proprietary -
@balasankarc: Prove it!
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jerin: There are dedicated human/skilled worker hours put into making the said software
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jerin: Prove I don't have to, so long as FOSS is not provably better.
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@balasankarc: You think FOSS developers doesn't care about the quality of the software they make?
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jerin: I'm not saying closed source is better, I'm stating sometimes it needn't be a deciding factor.
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jerin: You think FOSS developers doesn't care about the quality of the software they maI dunno - GNOME 3.18-3.2 gave so much pain.
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jerin: Everything breaks once in a while.
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jerin: Then there are terrorist systems which doesn't even let me install firefox.
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@balasankarc: How many times are we going to play this? Mac, the one where your precious developers spent hours and hours to polish, gave me great pain. Where's the advantage?
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jerin: Give me some alternative for Final Cut Pro.
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jerin: Give me a spotlight search or an equivalent on Linux.
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@balasankarc: Usability is relative! Hence we fall back to other factors to decide which is better.
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@balasankarc: jerin: There are graphics designers who switched to Blender and Krita and GIMP because they helped them do their job better - because they could customize it or get someone else to customize it for them.
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jerin: jerin: There are graphics designers who switched to Blender and Krita and GIMP because they helped them do their job better - because they could customize it or get someone else to customize it for th
Statistics? -
jerin: I mean, are you people going to ask me what's the statistics for Final Cut Pro?
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@balasankarc: Well, you were talking about how GNOME was a pain for "you" . :)
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Padding in gnome-terminal
Given below is my ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css VteTerminal, TerminalScreen { padding: 10px 10px 10px 10px; -VteTerminal-inner-border: 10px 10px 10px 10px; } I was using the ...
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jerin: Asked Aug, Answered Jan
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jerin: Tell me a decent mail with message threading on linux?
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jerin: *e-mail client.
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@balasankarc: Threading? Most of the major ones do that - thunderbird. Geary even has conversations mode.
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jerin: I tried geary. It's abandoned, last time I checked.
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jerin: Thunderbird gets me a plugin - which is a crappy duct tape hack.
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@balasankarc: On october 2 a new version of geary was released. You call that abandoned?
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jerin: On the other hand - it lets me integrate with LDAP nicely. I still stayed for a while.
One day I decided to export LDAP contacts to GMAIL using a script, and haven't left inbox since. -
jerin: On october 2 a new version of geary was released. You call that abandon_Last time I checked._ And it's still not very mature.
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@balasankarc: Best.
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jerin: The point is, just because something is FOSS doesn't make it far superior to competing non-FOSS alternatives.
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@balasankarc: On certain aspects, it does.
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jerin: It may be one factor, but being particular with everything being FOSS gets you crippled.
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@balasankarc: "may" get you crippled in some cases.
But using a non-free software gets you crippled definitely because it is defective by design - being non-free is a fundamental flaw that isn't compensated be how shiny and polishy it is. Because freedom matters! -
jerin: *with everything*? Stop picking on the language. Meh, same old FOSS terrorism.
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jerin: So, I've deployed Ubuntu Linux on the servers I manage here.
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jerin: Doesn't mean I'm going to let users play around with the software breaking other people's software.
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jerin: It means, I reserve root/sudo privileges, given I'm technically capable enough.
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jerin: I'm restricting people's freedom in a way.
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jerin: I can choose to give anyone the access to do
sudo ln -s <proper-library> <older-version> -
jerin: I simply don't.
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jerin: ^ The point of the above is that finance department staff needn't exactly be bothered what the fuck Free and Open Source Software is and can be presented with better software and hardware using which they can get work done efficiently.
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GNOME Super Search 😬 -
I use kdenlive for my video tasks. Light work is a professional editing tool, which not free software but works on Linux
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I'm running a YouTube channel with only using kdenlive
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jerin: I don't intend to use any of these, if that's where you're getting st
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jerin:
> Reply to jerin:
> jerin: Give me a spotlight search or an equivalent on Linux.
> GNOME Super Search 😬
What is this? Google search got me nothing -
mujeebcpy: That is your problem, not Foss
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